To be done or not to be done ... that's here the question ;)

everything about the next not so big update

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To be done or not to be done ... that's here the question ;)

Postby Uatschitchun » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:18 pm

I'll just post a list of little things and questions I need to know for building proper Debian-Packages:

:arrow: Would be nice if you could change tools/gen_tvlisting.sh to the one with preconfigured german grabbers and explanation


:arrow: Isn't there a way to automate the version number update in manpages?


:arrow: With input=lirc/evdev the MMS windows gets not repainted after the window was in the background! Only navigationg updates the parts of MMS that get rerendered!


:arrow: Could you add these two patches? Only using '-' in manpages is recognized as hyphens, not as minus. So one is not able to copy&paste options from manpage with UTF-8
(see: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/03/msg01481.html)

Patch-1:

Code: Select all

--- mms-1.0.8.1/man/de  2007-03-08 10:47:38.000000000 +0100
+++ mms-1.0.8.1man/de.neu       2007-03-08 10:47:23.000000000 +0100
@@ -30,7 +30,7 @@
 .SH BEZEICHNUNG
 mms \- Eine vollständige Medien-Oberfläche
 .SH "ÜBERSICHT"
-\fBmms\fP [ --help ] [ -c \fIDateiname\fP ] [ -d ] [ -b ] [ -r \fIDateiname\fP ] [ -w \fIDateiname\fP ] [ -i \fITyp\fP ] [ -o \fITyp\fP ]
+\fBmms\fP [ \-\-help ] [ \-c \fIDateiname\fP ] [ \-d ] [ \-b ] [ \-r \fIDateiname\fP ] [ \-w \fIDateiname\fP ] [ \-i \fITyp\fP ] [ \-o \fITyp\fP ]
 .SH BESCHREIBUNG
 \fBMMS\fP stellt eine Medienoberfläche bereit, mit der sich Musik,
 Radio, Video, Bilder und Spiele sowohl von Festplatte, als auch
@@ -43,32 +43,32 @@
 erfolgen.
 .SH OPTIONEN
 .TP
-\fB--help\fP
+\fB\-\-help\fP
 Gibt eine Hilfe aus, in der die Funktionen kurz erläutert sind. Weiter werden hier
 die zur Verfügung stehenden (mitcompilierten) \fBEingabe-\fP und \fBAusgabegeräte\fP angezeigt.
 .TP
-\fB-c <Konfigurationsdatei>\fP (absoluter Pfad)
+\fB\-c <Konfigurationsdatei>\fP (absoluter Pfad)
 Eine alternative Konfigurationsdatei verwenden. Die Angabe muss mit
 vollständigem Pfad erfolgen.
 .TP
-\fB-d\fP
+\fB\-d\fP
 Startet \fRMMS\fP als Daemon im Hintergrund
 .TP
-\fB-b\fP
-Erstellt ein Benchmark. Benötigt gleichzeitig den Parameter \fB-i replay\fP und \fB-r <Nachspieldatei>\fP
+\fB\-b\fP
+Erstellt ein Benchmark. Benötigt gleichzeitig den Parameter \fB\-i replay\fP und \fB\-r <Nachspieldatei>\fP
 .TP
-\fB-r <Nachspieldatei>\fP (relativer Pfad)
+\fB\-r <Nachspieldatei>\fP (relativer Pfad)
 Nutzt eine Nachspieldatei als Eingabe. Hier gespeicherte Befehlsfolgen
-werden nacheinander abgespielt. Benötigt gleichzeitig die Parameter \fB-i replay\fP
+werden nacheinander abgespielt. Benötigt gleichzeitig die Parameter \fB\-i replay\fP
 .TP
-\fB-w <Nachspieldatei>\fP (relativer Pfad)
+\fB\-w <Nachspieldatei>\fP (relativer Pfad)
 Erstellt eine Nachspieldatei anhand aufgezeichneter Eingaben.
 .TP
-\fB-i <Eingabegerät>\fP
+\fB\-i <Eingabegerät>\fP
 Gibt das zu nutzende Eingabegerät vor. Mögliche Geräte sind
 \fIkeyboard\fP, \fIlirc\fP oder \fIevdev\fP
 .TP
-\fB-o <Ausgabegerät>\fP
+\fB\-o <Ausgabegerät>\fP
 Gibt das zu nutzende Ausgabegerät vor. Mögliche Geräte sind
 \fIsdl\fP, \fIdvb\fP, \fIdxr3\fP und \fIfbdev\fP
 .SH "TASTATURSTEUERUNG"
@@ -78,7 +78,7 @@
 (funktionierende LIRC-Unterstützung vorausgesetzt).
 Die relevanten Tasten für die grundlegende Tastatur-Bedienung werde hier
 vorgestellt (
-.I "-i keyboard"
+.I "\-i keyboard"
 )
 .TP
 .B Tastatursteuerung


Patch-2:

Code: Select all

--- mms-1.0.8.1/man/en  2007-03-07 08:23:53.000000000 +0100
+++ mms-1.0.8.1/man/en.neu      2007-03-08 10:45:59.000000000 +0100
@@ -32,7 +32,7 @@
 .SH NAME
 mms \- a complete multimedia suite
 .SH SYNOPSIS
-\fBmms\fP [ --help ] [ -c \fIfile\fP ] [ -d ] [ -b ] [ -r \fIfile\fP ] [ -w \fIfile\fP ] [ -i \fItype\fP ] [ -o \fItype\fP ]
+\fBmms\fP [ \-\-help ] [ \-c \fIfile\fP ] [ \-d ] [ \-b ] [ \-r \fIfile\fP ] [ \-w \fIfile\fP ] [ \-i \fItype\fP ] [ \-o \fItype\fP ]
 .SH DESCRIPTION
 \fBMMS\fP offers a complete media-suite for having easy access to music,
 radio, video, pictures and games from harddisk or cd/dvd.
@@ -43,35 +43,35 @@
 The input may be realised with \fIkeyboard\fP, \fIlirc\fP oder \fIevdev\fP.
 .SH OPTIONS
 .TP
-\fB--help\fP
+\fB\-\-help\fP
 Offers a short help and description of the commandline options and gives
 an overview of compiled-in input- and outputdevices.
 .TP
-\fB-c <configfile>\fP (absolute path)
+\fB\-c <configfile>\fP (absolute path)
 Sets an alternate config-file
 .TP
-\fB-d\fP
+\fB\-d\fP
 Starts \fRMMS\fP as daemon for background usage.
 .TP
-\fB-b\fP
+\fB\-b\fP
 Fastest possible playback of given commands for benchmarking purposes.
-Needs \fB-i replay\fP and \fB-r <replayfile>\fP to work.
+Needs \fB\-i replay\fP and \fB\-r <replayfile>\fP to work.
 .TP
-\fB-r <replayfile>\fP (relative path)
+\fB\-r <replayfile>\fP (relative path)
 Uses a given replayfile as input. Recorded commands are played back.
-Use this for automation or benchmarking. Needs \fB-i replay\fP to be set.
+Use this for automation or benchmarking. Needs \fB\-i replay\fP to be set.
 .TP
-\fB-w <replayfile>\fP (relative path)
+\fB\-w <replayfile>\fP (relative path)
 Records input-commands to the given replayfile.
 .TP
-\fB-i <input>\fP
+\fB\-i <input>\fP
 Sets the input device apart from the default given in the config file.
 Possible devices are \fIkeyboard\fP, \fIlirc\fP or \fIevdev\fP, depending
 on how
 .B MMS
 was compiled.
 .TP
-\fB-o <outputdevice>\fP
+\fB\-o <outputdevice>\fP
 Sets the output device apart from the default given in the config file.
 Possible devices are \fIsdl\fP, \fIdvb\fP, \fIdxr3\fP and \fIfbdev\fP,
 depending on how



Sorry for this long list! But these are open topics (at least for me) ...

Lg
Roman
Last edited by Uatschitchun on Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:12 am, edited 19 times in total.

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby acmelabs » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:38 pm

Uatschitchun wrote:...
Lg
Roman

I love you for your short postings ;-)
OK, give me time to read it first.

Andreas

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby esprit » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:49 pm

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: themes/standard/startmenu/mount.png is executeable .. needed?

No reason why it should.

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby acmelabs » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:51 pm

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Could playnow=true be made default?

I'd like to have that
:arrow: Could fullscreen=false be made default .. at least for SDL? 800x600 is not a standard resolution nowadays and let first start be a windowed start is much more safer.

Yes, I had this thought to
:arrow: Could idle_time=1 be made default?

Very good.
:arrow: Does the options-file has to be chmoded 777 in Makefile?

Dunno
:arrow: Is Fullscreen option in Options still of any worth?

where is this option?
:arrow: themes/standard/startmenu/mount.png is executeable .. needed?

I think it's obvious - no.
:arrow: Is anyone using gentvlisting.sh from tools/ with german xmltv_grab? Maybe Prisma? Would be nice to have an example! Will ask for that in german-forum, too.

I'm using vdr2xmltv
:arrow: The manpages wear the mms-version-number. What if the version updates? Do the manpages have to be changed by hand? Or could this be done somehow magically?

Yeah, and a version number for developer versions somewhere too.
:arrow: If a wrong theme-version is used, MMS only complains about not matching version number but does not spit out what it expects (like it does with config and input-*)

Yep, a little inconsistance. Didn't noticed it before, since we didn't change it for a while.

Regards,

Andreas
Last edited by acmelabs on Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby Uatschitchun » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:44 pm

acmelabs wrote:
:arrow: Is Fullscreen option in Options still of any worth?

where is this option?

Forget about it ;)
I was too confused ...

:arrow: Is anyone using gentvlisting.sh from tools/ with german xmltv_grab? Maybe Prisma? Would be nice to have an example! Will ask for that in german-forum, too.

I'm using vdr2xmltv

Me too, but this could be documented better ...

Lg
Roman

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby arj » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:38 pm

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Could playnow=true be made default?


It was initially off because it is sort of a different philosophy for handling audio. I have since come to the conclusion (after many hours of rockbox usage :)) that it is perhaps a smarter way.

Normally one doesn't really need to care about playlist. I just want to list to my damn music, "do that and stop bothering me with all this playlist stuff I don't care about and don't need right now" :)

The idea is that one the majority of times does not use the playlist, one just plays songs. The problem with those approaches is that the playlist becomes so secondary that most people don't use them, even though they could be of very good usage.

So you sort of have 2 camps, the geeky winamp camp where everything is a playlist. The ipod camp where there is almost to concept of playlists. MMS is very close to the winamp camp (it actually support it :)). This patch sort of bridges this gap between the two camps which is very nice. It's sort of the best of two worlds. The only problem is that the destruction of the playlist could be quite disastrous. It breaks the principle of safe-exploration.

So how do we fix this situation?

- autosave the playlist when doing the play now so that one can get the playlist back (not optimal, how would one know that it did this?)
- same as 1, just display a message the first time saying that the old playlist has been saved as XXX. Better but still not optimal.
- ask (warn) the user of what is about to happen. Sucks if one doesn't really care about this. Modal windows are the devil.

Does anyone have other suggestions?

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Could fullscreen=false be made default .. at least for SDL? 800x600 is not a standard resolution nowadays and let first start be a windowed start is much more safer.


The only problem I see with this one is that the user won't know that one can enable fullscreen in the config. But then again he will probably need to change the resolution and will notice the fullscreen config. So I would say yes if the fullscreen option is moved to the resolution part of the config.

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Could idle_time=1 be made default?


Good idea.

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Do an example for input-evdev exists somewhere? If do, it should be added to source. If not, it should be created and added to source after that ...


Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does Bttv-Radio works with gstreamer and alsaplayer?


No perhaps it works with gstreamer. I'm not even sure if Bttv-radio even works anymore.

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does the options-file has to be chmoded 777 in Makefile?


Fixed

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: themes/standard/startmenu/mount.png is executeable .. needed?


Fixed

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: The manpages wear the mms-version-number. What if the version updates? Do the manpages have to be changed by hand? Or could this be done somehow magically?


New version should mean new man-page install. They might have changed. And one could have several versions installed.

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: 'make install' does not reflect the needs of different users. How would a startscript (used within .desktop-file) looks like that does a 'first-run'-check to see if there's a ~/.mms with all needed files and if not, copies over the needed files from /etc/mms, /var/lib/mms, etc. before statring MMS?


Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does 'make clean' and 'make distclean' clean correctly? Do these targets take care of cleaning libs/libavcodec, test.o, etc.? Me was feeling they don't !?


Fixed

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: If a wrong theme-version is used, MMS only complains about not matching version number but does not spit out what it expects (like it does with config and input-*)


Fixed

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does mms-audio-library need to be able to write to scanned patch? (got this from zenega forum)


No

Uatschitchun wrote:Sorry for this long list! But these are open topics (at least for me) ...


Thanks for the list!

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby arj » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:16 pm

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does 'make clean' and 'make distclean' clean correctly? Do these targets take care of cleaning libs/libavcodec, test.o, etc.? Me was feeling they don't !?


make clean, cleans mms
make distclean, cleans mms + libs

libavcodec takes a long time to compile so it's better only to clean it when absolutely needed.

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: If a wrong theme-version is used, MMS only complains about not matching version number but does not spit out what it expects (like it does with config and input-*)


Please note that this also requires a translation update :twisted:

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby Uatschitchun » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:17 am

arj wrote:
Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Could playnow=true be made default?


It was initially off because it is sort of a different philosophy for handling audio. I have since come to the conclusion (after many hours of rockbox usage :)) that it is perhaps a smarter way.

Normally one doesn't really need to care about playlist. I just want to list to my damn music, "do that and stop bothering me with all this playlist stuff I don't care about and don't need right now" :)

The idea is that one the majority of times does not use the playlist, one just plays songs. The problem with those approaches is that the playlist becomes so secondary that most people don't use them, even though they could be of very good usage.

So you sort of have 2 camps, the geeky winamp camp where everything is a playlist. The ipod camp where there is almost to concept of playlists. MMS is very close to the winamp camp (it actually support it :)). This patch sort of bridges this gap between the two camps which is very nice. It's sort of the best of two worlds. The only problem is that the destruction of the playlist could be quite disastrous. It breaks the principle of safe-exploration.

So how do we fix this situation?

- autosave the playlist when doing the play now so that one can get the playlist back (not optimal, how would one know that it did this?)
- same as 1, just display a message the first time saying that the old playlist has been saved as XXX. Better but still not optimal.
- ask (warn) the user of what is about to happen. Sucks if one doesn't really care about this. Modal windows are the devil.

Does anyone have other suggestions?


The plylist thing is one of the main reasons I'm loving MMS for :oops:
Together with _not_ using tag-based navigation but dir-structure it is making music experience like I want it to!!

The playnow thing is more a kind of handy extension to me, than a change in philisophy! It just saves some actions and is working kind of 'change cd to another one'. I do know that if I change the cd I'm listening to, that I'm not able to listen to the one before anymore ;)
'Play now' only clears the actual list, adds the whole dir and starts playing. 3 actions can be solved by one 'click' - if one is certain and knowing about the playlist in background! That's why I even did not mention the 'play now' thing in the article but show off the similarity to xmms and winamp.

I have some suggestions:
* Move 'play now=0/1' from config to options and display a warning if it is enabled (maybe still leave a parameter in config for it to disable it completly)
* Change 'Play now' in second-action to 'Play now - replace playlist' - to warn in a more decent way
* Make 'play now' for folders work like it does for for single tracks (add them to the list - not clearing the list - and start playing immidiately). This one will not work correctly when using random modes for random makes use of the other tracks in list, too
* Change the entries in second-action to be more honest with what they do:
'Add folder to plalist' => 'Add folder to list (enqueue)'
'Play now' => 'Add folder to list (play now)'
This is what winamp does in right-click-menu on a folder.

Even _because_ 'play now' closes the gap you mention, I would like to see it enabled per default!
And to be honest: The user with a huge playlist using 'play now' the first time, destroying his list, will learn not to do that anymore - once hurt, twice shy. Trust me, I'm a studied master in Paedagogik ... those learn-effects sound harder than they are :twisted:

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Could fullscreen=false be made default .. at least for SDL? 800x600 is not a standard resolution nowadays and let first start be a windowed start is much more safer.


The only problem I see with this one is that the user won't know that one can enable fullscreen in the config. But then again he will probably need to change the resolution and will notice the fullscreen config. So I would say yes if the fullscreen option is moved to the resolution part of the config.

Ok, with moving fullscreen it will do!

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Do an example for input-evdev exists somewhere? If do, it should be added to source. If not, it should be created and added to source after that ...

No answer is a answer, too :P

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does Bttv-Radio works with gstreamer and alsaplayer?


No perhaps it works with gstreamer. I'm not even sure if Bttv-radio even works anymore.

Will see if I can test!

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does the options-file has to be chmoded 777 in Makefile?


Fixed

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: themes/standard/startmenu/mount.png is executeable .. needed?


Fixed

Thx, debian was hardly complaining ...

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: The manpages wear the mms-version-number. What if the version updates? Do the manpages have to be changed by hand? Or could this be done somehow magically?


New version should mean new man-page install. They might have changed. And one could have several versions installed.

The version number corresponds to the binaries's version number. There's no extra versioning in manpages.
.TH MMS 1 "12.2.2007" "My Media System" "version 1.0.8.1" "user commands"

The question was more concerning on: Do we really have to change the version number manually?

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does 'make clean' and 'make distclean' clean correctly? Do these targets take care of cleaning libs/libavcodec, test.o, etc.? Me was feeling they don't !?


Fixed

Did these targets miss some things?

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does mms-audio-library need to be able to write to scanned patch? (got this from zenega forum)


No

Thought that!

Thx for doing the fixes so prompt!

Lg
Roman

P.S. Will update the list in first post, soon!

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby Uatschitchun » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:21 am

arj wrote:
Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: Does 'make clean' and 'make distclean' clean correctly? Do these targets take care of cleaning libs/libavcodec, test.o, etc.? Me was feeling they don't !?


make clean, cleans mms
make distclean, cleans mms + libs

libavcodec takes a long time to compile so it's better only to clean it when absolutely needed.

Yeah .. need distclean only to build proper debian sources! There's a diff file created between the clean upstream sources and the changed made for debian. These may not contain changes to upstream, so the distclan target has to do a proper job!

Uatschitchun wrote: :arrow: If a wrong theme-version is used, MMS only complains about not matching version number but does not spit out what it expects (like it does with config and input-*)


Please note that this also requires a translation update :twisted:

Jepp, I'm learning :wink:
Next time I'll update translations only at the very end, promised!
It's only to have 1.0.8.2 tramslated!

Lg
Roman
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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby acmelabs » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:31 am

Hello,

I've got a lot to say to this issue, but - well - it's been said enough. The one point I remember very well, when I've started using the music module, I had quite a fight with the playlists, although I've been a user of winamp in former times. Until today I'm not a power-user of the music module for reasons I've posted here several times.
The good thing is, MMS is evelvoing steadily, and we have impact at it.
Don't be upset guys, if I post my very personal little outlook again, but this is what I expect from MMS in the (far?) future:

General
  • allways interruptable
  • animated (only for SDL would be OK)
  • fully scaleable (fonts/icons, for usage from Embedded to HDTV)
Music-Module
  • all-over search (a la amarok)
  • ergonomic playlist handling (the point discussed here)
  • other input methods (lirc) or helper-graphics
  • much faster navigation (45sec to enter a big folder atm)
Movie-Module
  • full DVD-navigation
Picture-Module
  • soft-scroll
  • seamless zoom
  • transition/fade effects
  • fast start for recursive slideshows
EPG-Module
  • start TV by choosing an EPG-channel
  • ability to set VDR-timer


Sorry and thanks,

Andreas

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby esprit » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:37 am

acmelabs wrote:
General
[*]animated (only for SDL would be OK)
[*]fully scaleable (fonts/icons, for usage from Embedded to HDTV)[/list]

So give a try to "Elisa" (an opengl media system)

acmelabs wrote:Music-Module
  • all-over search (a la amarok)
  • ergonomic playlist handling (the point discussed here)

Ok, so don't give a try to "Elisa" :lol:

Personally I like the actual playlist system, even if I don't have any saved playlist. I want to be able to create the playlist 'of the day' depending of my humour, and it is just perfect for that like it is ;)

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby acmelabs » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:45 am

Esprit: Elisa looks gorgeous! I've tried it months ago. I was totally flashed by its look. Unfortunately it's completely unusable yet, since it's alpha. And I think it's going to be unusable for years. Yes - this is our chance to make MMS fit for the future.
Don't get me wrong. What we have is something very usable and stable. I just have some dreams, that's all.

Regards,

Andreas

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby arj » Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:58 am

acmelabs wrote:[*]much faster navigation (45sec to enter a big folder atm)[/list]


Could you refresh my memory and tell me where it happens more specifically? Maybe provide a strace log. Thanks.

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Postby arj » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:01 am

I was at a talk on Elisa at fosdem. They have split out the animation framework into a seperate library so there is no reason why it shouldn't be able to work if we use that one. I actually contemplated doing that. It depends on what the requirements are for using gstreamer and opengl.

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Re: To be done or not to be done ... that's here the questio

Postby Uatschitchun » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:30 pm

Uatschitchun wrote:I'll just post a list of little things and questions I need to know for building proper Debian-Packages:


Would you mind doing me a favour and keep on topic?

I would like to get the packages done! So these are just essential questions regarding this!

Would help alot!

Thx
Roman

P.S. Updated the list ...


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